And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Hi David. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Install the drain adapter, if needed. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. You peeled it off? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. How did this project turn out? Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Hang the cement boar. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. rev2023.3.3.43278. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. See the foam bench and the corners. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. But there are downsides. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". In a perfect job, it will waterproof. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. I'm thirsty. I usually use Durock. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Will add it in. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. To line niche shelves, for instance. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Maybe try another brand of thinset? The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. 4. Step 8: Allow to dry. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. the cost of the tile job. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Think about movement. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Anytime Mongo. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. I imagine we could share some good stories. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . Some being easier to work with than others. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. The shower is ready for tile. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. #3 This is a DIY site. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. I also used the Kerdi drain. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. When installing KERDI with . Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Welcome to the site. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. The mortar does . 120 sq feet including the floor. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! Jun 21, 2017. Let's start! Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Caulk the gap. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. 3. x 96 in. Yes. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Using cement board and a sheet membrane . Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. I also used the Kerdi drain. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. The 30-in. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. There are numerous ways to do this. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. . I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. Why is this the case? Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack.
